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 Post subject: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:22 pm 
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In researching a set of documents to a Fliegerschutze who flew with III./Kampfgeschwader 77 during the Polandfeldzug, I am trying to ascertain an accurate and detailed list of operations from this campaign.

I have the book 'Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe 1933-1945 VOL. 2 A Reference Source Volume 2' - by Henry L. de Zang IV & Douglas G. Stankey (an excellent work IMO) however, I know that there is further detailed information out there which delves into the specific history of Luftwaffe operations over Poland.

Any pointers and help in this matter will be gratefully received indeed.

Regards Richard.


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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Richard,

I'll be back to you on this.

I will try and find some info from that spreadsheet for III./Kampfgeschwader 77.

Also there are a couple of Kagero publications that cover Polish operations that may help as well.

Yeah - I've got V1 and V2 of Larry's Bomber books plus v1 of the Ground attack volumes. Great books and a great guy. Looks like v2 of the Gound Attack books will come out late in 2012 if at all. Larry was kind enough to pass me soem info on 122 when I first started (see the references on the pages to LdZ) in addition he has provided some additional articles for the Wiki.

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 Post subject: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:14 pm 
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Andy, thank you as always for your help, if you are able to provide any details it really will be a great benefit in the research of this man.

You are right about Doug Stankey and Larry de Zang's excellent books, I to have all 3 you mentioned, they are a must for any Luftwaffe enthusiast and historian. Volume 2 of the Ground Attack work is a much anticipated book! You are also right in that they are also very helpful indeed with their accumulated information.

I look forward to anything you might be able to discover.

Regards Richard.


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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Richard,

Please see the attached form the same source as before

Attachment:
III_KG77 Poland.xls [15.5 KB]
Downloaded 340 times

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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:43 am 
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Andy, that is excellent, thank you for your help.

Of note are the losses which III./KG77 suffered in this campaign. I have seen a similar record of operations for III./KG4 in the same operation and the losses were quite different for the opening phase for this unit. It was certainly not all plain sailing!

Thanks again.

Regards Richard.


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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:38 am 
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I am not sure if he is a visitor here, but Larry Hickey and his Eagles over Europe working group would be your best bet for detailed information regarding the Polish campaign. He and some of his 'working group' are over on the Twelve O'Clock High forum and they may be able to help you with more detailed information.

Perhaps if you could provide the crewmember's name you might get a more accurate response to your question.


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 Post subject: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Adam Thompson wrote:
I am not sure if he is a visitor here, but Larry Hickey and his Eagles over Europe working group would be your best bet for detailed information regarding the Polish campaign. He and some of his 'working group' are over on the Twelve O'Clock High forum and they may be able to help you with more detailed information.
Perhaps if you could provide the crewmember's name you might get a more accurate response to your question.


Adam

The Polandfeldzug element of researching this set of documents is not the problem.

I posted the detailed questions concerning the subsequent stages of his career relating to this grouping on both WAF and 12OCH with no end result:

I have recently purchased 13 documents formerly belonging to Ofw. Horst Fischer, Bordschutz in KG77, and am now in the process of researching as much information as I can about this man.

The research element is relatively straightforward however.......

My main question is that from his paperwork I have him as 7./KG77 & 8./KG77 until July-41. The next document which is a promotion doc dated September-41 (backdated to May-41) and lists him as Unterstab III./KG77. No other document after this records his unit, although there is a paper recording his wish to leave the Evangelical Church dated 24-September-1943 where is is recorded only by name and rank. His discharge paperwork dated September-1944 records he had a leg amputated above the knee as a result of a shell wound. This leads me to beleive he was possibly seriously wounded after July-41 and ended up working in the Unterstab from Sept-41 and was then captured by American forces on 1944. (as I understand it, Unterstab staff were the supporting staff for the Stab aircraft/aircrew?) or................did he possibly resume operational flying duties and suffer the loss of his leg in a crash leading to his capture?

I need to find the details of his possible aircraft loss that resulted in the loss of his leg and/or capture by the Americans which will shed valuable information. To that end, anyone is able to help with the Luftwaffe QM returns which might shed some light? I only have a broad time (July-41 onwards) until he could of recuperated sufficiently to resume duties in the Unterstab (that is if I have it right) but I know that out there, there are enthusiasts that have a great deal of knowledge and information that never ceases to amaze.

The said documents are duly listed below in the hope it might explain the background to the research a little better, and hopefully glean some more information.

10-October-1936 5./KG153 DLRG Schein (Gefreiter)

27-February -1937 Fliegerschützen Urkunde (Unteroffizier)

01-April-1938 Dienstauszeichnung IV. Klasse Urkunde 4./KG255 (Unteroffizier)

II./KG255 redesignated III./KG77 01-May-1939

01-October-1939 Medialle zur Erinnerung an den 1.Oktober 1938 Urkunde KG77 (Unteroffizier)

01-December-1939 Promotion to Feldwebel Document 7./KG77 (Feldwebel)

22-June-1940 EKII Urkunde (Feldwebel)

27-March-1941 EKI Urkunde 8./KG77 (Feldwebel)

13-July-1941 FFS in Silber Urkunde 8./KG77 (Oberfeldwebel)

25-September-1941 Promotion to Oberfeldwebel Document III./KG77 – Unterstab (backdated to 01-May-1941)

24-September-1943 Document stating his intention to leave the Evangelical Church.

09-September-1944(!) - Discharge Document, Stating an urgent requirement for an artificial limb due to right upper leg amputated.

Any help whatsover in ascertaining the circumstances of the wounding or capture of this man will be very well received indeed.


Regards Richard.


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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Richard,

The problem is that he may have been surplus to requirements and been one of the many Luftwaffe personnel forced to transfer to the Heer in a ground combat role....

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 Post subject: Kampfgeschwader 77 - Polandfeldzug
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Andy

The problem I cannot seem to trace a lead to is from being awarded the FFS im Silber for 60 missions on 13-July-1941 flying with 8./KG77 to being designated Unterstab - III./KG77 on 25-September-1941 and somewhere along the way he urgently requires an artificial leg as a result of shell fragment injury due to his leg amputation.

To be assigned from a front line operational staffel to a support cadre for Gruppen Stab aircraft, at a time when the Luftwaffe was very much on the offensive seems a little odd to say the least.

His Certificate of Discharge lists him as a 'Regular Army Soldier' so he may well of been drafted into a ground fighting unit somewhere along the way, or he may of been injured whilst flying as a Fliegerschutzen, in which case there may well be a NVM recording the incident somewhere out there.

Either way, there is still a lot of research to be carried out on this set of documents.

Regards Richard.


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