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 Post subject: DKiG Database Table - extracted repost
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:14 pm 
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Andrew Arthy Posted: Nov 24 2005, 12:50 AM

Hey guys,

Out of curiousity, I was wondering what your major sources are for this DKiG database?

In the last couple of weeks I've been working my way through the book by Horst Scheibert about DKiG holders (I'm only up to F in the Luftwaffe list!)

Your database adds a little extra information, because Scheibert doesn't mention units, which is a little frustrating, but also understandable when you consider the number of entries in his book.

PS - Here's some extra information for you.

Karl Golles' units should be 8./Z.G. 2, 10./S.K.G. 10, and 6./S.G. 4. He flew at least 63 missions in the Mediterranean.

Georg Rischbieter's units should be 8./Z.G. 2, 10./S.K.G. 10, 6./S.G. 4 and 7./S.G. 4. He flew more than 74 missions in the Mediterranean.

Gerhard Limberg served with the Stab III./S.K.G. 10. He flew 44 missions in Tunisia. Limberg survived the war, and served in the post-war Luftwaffe.

Bruno Schaefer initially served with J.G. 77. In December 1942 he went to 9./S.K.G. 10 in Tunisia. In the Mediterranean he flew at least 134 missions. He shot down two enemy aircraft, and claimed a Fortress II probably shot down. He himself was shot down by Spitfires on 29 August 1943, and was captured. You state his unit was 6./S.G. 4, but the unit only became known as that after he was shot down.

Wolfgang Schreck was a pilot with 8./Z.G. 2 and 10./S.K.G. 10. He flew at least 69 missions in the Mediterranean. He claimed at least one victory in Tunisia.

Norbert Schmitt flew with III./Z.G. 1, 3./Sch.G. 2 and 3./S.G. 10.

All the best,
Andrew Arthy

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Andy Fletcher Posted: Nov 24 2005, 10:51 AM


Hi Andrew,

Many thanks for the additional info, just the sort of thing we're after.

Main source is "Die Träger des Deutschen Kreuzes in Gold der Luftwaffe" by Veit Scherzer. It lists the unit that the individual was serving with at the time of his award. Addition unit info is from my own research.

Secondary sources are many, other books, internet etc. Dave Wadman has also sent me info on a number of aufklärer not included in Scherzers book (presumably from flugbucher).

I'm sure there are many typos and other errors in the database but hopefully not too many.

Does Horst Scheibert's book state what the function was for the Luftwaffe aircrew entries (ie flugzeugführer, beobachter etc) and their fates?

Thanks again.

Andy Fletcher

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Andrew Arthy Posted: Nov 25 2005, 12:37 AM


Hi Andy,

Thanks for the quick reply. Glad I could add a little information to your database. No doubt I've got more I can add about the Schlacht pilots, and I'll get that to you at some point.

Yes, the Horst Scheibert book does include the function of Luftwaffe aircrew. Just not the aircrew's unit!!!

All the best,
Andrew A.

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Andy Fletcher Posted: Nov 25 2005, 11:10 AM


Hi Andrew,

I look forward to any additional info you could provide.

>Horst Scheibert book does include the function of Luftwaffe aircrew. Just not the aircrew's unit

Where as Veit Scherzer's book provides unit info but not aircrew function.

What is the title and ISBN of Horst Scheibert's book? I assume it's in German but could someone linguistically challenged (like myself) extract data from it (presumably the format is alphabetical listings)?

Best Regards

Andy (F)

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Andrew Arthy Posted: Nov 28 2005, 12:49 PM


Hi Andy,

You should have no trouble extracting data from the Scheibert book. The data is presented in very straightforward tables, with last name, first name, rank, date of award, and function.

Here are the details:

Horst Scheibert, Die Traeger des deutschen Kreuzes in Gold, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, Waffen-SS und des deutschen Kreuzes in Silber, Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, Waffen-SS, Podzun-Pallas-Verlag, Friedburg, undated, ISBN 3-7909-0223-3.

I got it through Interlibrary Loan here in Australia, but had actually requested the book by Scherzer!

Cheers,
Andrew A.

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Andy Fletcher Posted: Nov 28 2005, 08:16 PM


Hi Andrew,

Many thanks for the info, I'll see if I can track down a copy.

Best Regards

Andy (F)

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Andy Fletcher Posted: Dec 14 2005, 06:25 PM


QUOTE (Andrew Arthy @ Nov 23 2005, 11:50 PM)

PS - Here's some extra information for you.

Norbert Schmitt flew with III./Z.G. 1, 3./Sch.G. 2 and 3./S.G. 10.


Hi Andrew,

In your post you state that Norbert Schmitt flew with 3/Sch.G.2, which was re-designated 3/SG10 18Oct43.

I've found the following claims for him in Tony Woods claims lists.

Date; Rank & Name; Unit; Claim

06Jul43; Lt Nobert Schmitt; 3/Sch.G.1; Il-2
08Jul43; Lt ??? Schmitt; 3/Sch.G.1; Il-2
28Apr44; Lt Nobert Schmitt; 3/SG10; Yak-9
28Apr44; Lt Nobert Schmitt; 3/SG10; Yak-1
29Apr44; Lt Nobert Schmitt; 3/SG10; Yak-9
4May44; Lt Norbert Schmitt; 3/SG10; MiG-3
16Jul44; Olt Nobert Schmitt; 3/SG10; Yak-9
20Jul44; Olt Nobert Schmitt; 3/SG10; Yak-9
19Nov44; Olt Norbert Schmitt; 3/SG10; Yak-9
08Dec44; Olt Norbert Schmitt; 3/SG10; Boston III
17Dec44; Olt Norbert Schmitt; 3/SG10; Yak-9
25Dec44; Olt Norbert Schmitt; 3/SG10; R-5

Presumably Nobert Schmitt is Norbert Schmitt and as you can see he definately flew with 3/SG10 but the first two claims on the list show him with 3/Sch.G.1 on the Eastern Front. As you know 3/Sch.G.2 was serving in the MTO at this time.

Can you shed any light on Schmitt's career, in particular when did he fly with 3/Sch.G.2 in the MTO and when did he serve with III/ZG1.

Regards

Andy Fletcher

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Andy Fletcher Posted: Dec 15 2005, 10:41 AM


I've found another couple of claims that can probably be attributed to Norbert Schmitt.

01Feb44; Lt Norbert Schmidt; 2/SG10; LaGG
08Mar44; Lt Nobert Schmidt; 1/SG10; R-5

Regards

Andy (F)

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Andrew Arthy Posted: Dec 16 2005, 11:52 PM


Hi Andy,

Interesting!

Here are some dates to confirm Norbert Schmitt's units:

2 October 1942: shot down and wounded with 8./Z.G. 1.
3 October 1942: rescued by the Wüstennotstaffel, unit recorded as III./Z.G. 1.
26 February 1943: flew a mission with 3./Sch.G. 2.
4 March 1943: flew a mission with 3./Sch.G. 2.
7 March 1943: flew a mission with 3./Sch.G. 2.
21 March 1943: flew a mission with 3./Sch.G. 2.
4 August 1943: A Lt. Schmidt of I./Sch.G. 2 sent a signal to the Fliegerführer Sardinia.

According to Obermaier he flew 84 missions in North Africa, so you would have to assume he was with I./Sch.G. 2 throughout its service in North Africa.

Some more information for you on other S.G. pilots:

Lt. Karl-Ludwig Klepke, units include, chronologically, 8./Z.G. 2, 10./S.K.G. 10, Fr.Fl.S.Gr., 9./S.G. 4. Went to 9./S.G. 4 from the Fr.Fl.S.Gr. on 11.01.44. Became Staffelkapitän of 9./S.G. 4 on 12.03.44. At least 39 missions in the Mediterranean.

Erich Axthammer survived the war, and was still alive in early 2005.

Erich Bunge was with S.K.G. 10 in September 1943, although I'm not sure of exactly which Gruppe he was with.

Werner Dedekind was Staffelkapitän of 7./S.G. 4.

Helmut Eberspächer survived the war and was alive in 2005.

Egon Fiebelkorn was with 1./Jabogruppe Afrika on 2 September 1942.

Wilhelm Hobein was with I./Sch.G. 2 in 1942/1943, and was a very successful unit leader in North Africa.

Georg Rischbieter survived the war and died in 1996.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

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Andy Fletcher Posted: Dec 17 2005, 01:22 PM



Hi Andrew,

Great info!

Regards Norbert Schmitt maybe when I/Sch.G.2 transferred to Sicily in Apr43 he transferred from 3/Sch.G.2 to 3/Sch.G.1, the dates you supplied and his claims with 3/Sch.G.1 would support this.

>>4 August 1943: A Lt. Schmidt of I./Sch.G. 2 sent a signal to the Fliegerführer Sardinia

This is the only date that throws a spanner in the works, but as Schmidt is a very common name maybe it isn't our man.

Then again maybe the claims with 3/Sch.G.1 are in error and if he did fly with this unit it doens't explain how he ended up back with 3/SG10.

Thanks again

Andy (F)

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Andy Fletcher Posted: Jan 6 2006, 03:56 PM


QUOTE (Andrew Arthy @ Dec 16 2005, 10:52 PM)
Wilhelm Hobein was with I./Sch.G. 2 in 1942/1943, and was a very successful unit leader in North Africa.


Hi Andrew,

Do you know if Wilhelm Hobein is the same individual as "Fritz" Hobein who was Gr.Kdr. III/ZG1 late 1942?

Do you know on what date Wilhelm Hobein became Gr.Kdr. I/Sch.G.2?

Regards

Andy (F)

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Andrew Arthy Posted: May 2 2006, 02:47 AM


Hi Andy,

Sorry, I never replied to this.

Yes, it is the same guy, because III./Z.G. 1 had been incorporated into I./Sch.G. 2 in late-October and early November 1942. I'm actually writing a unit history of I./Sch.G. 2, so have lots of details about its personnel.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

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Andy Fletcher Posted: May 2 2006, 02:56 PM


Hi Andrew,

Thanks for confirming the info on Hobein.

I look forward to the unit history on I/Sch.G.2, particulary for the later stages of the Tunisian campaign and Operation Husky.

Will it be a book or a web page?

Regards

Andy (F)


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