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 Post subject: Caudron C.445 with unknown emblem
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:35 am 
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This Caudron C-445 is on ebay http://www.ebay.de/itm/Originalfoto-Flugzeug-2-Weltkrieg-Kennung-Staffelabzeichen-/260886796105?pt=Militaria&hash=item3cbe109749. It has an emblem which I cannot identify. Its most likely a training unit. Caudron C.445 were mostly with FFS C and LKS units. The aircraft has the stkz BJ+U?. The emblem may be a flower/leaf with some similarity to that of FFS C 8, but appears to be a light colour with something else at the centre...any ideas?


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Caudron C.449, BJ+U_, (eBay) (1).JPG
Caudron C.449, BJ+U_, (eBay) (1).JPG [ 24.89 KB | Viewed 3304 times ]


Last edited by ianatheling on Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Caudron C.445 with unknown emblem
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Ian,

According to pages from the old "Beut" site BJ+U_ is a code group used by Caudrons in Luftwaffe service delivered late Oct through Nov 1942. However, there is no information regarding possible units.

Have had a look through the following and cannot see the emblem:-

Meyer/Stipdonk - Von der Fliegerschule zum Einsatzverband 1939-45
Ries - Photo Collection Luftwaffe Emblem 1939-45
Ries - Deutche Fluzeugführerschulen und ihre Machinen 1919-45
Ketley/Rolfe - Luftwaffe Fledglings
Ketley/Rolfe - Luftwaffe Emblems 1939 - 45

There are very few training units (other then than blind flying schools) with emblems that are made up of a disc, most are featured on shields.

Sorry ..........

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 Post subject: Re: Caudron C.445 with unknown emblem
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Hi Andy
Thanks for looking...I dont think that I have seen this one before, but hopefully it will turn up again in the future with more info and clearer image.

Cheers
Ian


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 Post subject: Re: Caudron C.445 with unknown emblem
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Ian,

here is an extract from the http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/stammkennzeichen.html page

J+UA Caudron C.445 W.Nr.865/9601 W.Nr.865/9601
BJ+UB Caudron C.445 W.Nr.866/9602 W.Nr.866/9602 FFS A/B 11
BJ+UC Caudron C.445 W.Nr.867/9603 W.Nr.867/9603 FFS A/B 42
BJ+UD Caudron C.445 W.Nr.868/9604 W.Nr.868/9604 M0007/109
BJ+UE Caudron C.445 W.Nr.869/9605 W.Nr.869/9605
BJ+UF Caudron C.445 W.Nr.870/9606 W.Nr.870/9606
BJ+UG Caudron C.445 W.Nr.871/9607 W.Nr.871/9607
BJ+UH Caudron C.445 W.Nr.872/9608 W.Nr.872/9608 LKS 3 D0077
BJ+UI Caudron C.445 W.Nr.873/9609 W.Nr.873/9609 W0001 F9963
BJ+UJ Caudron C.445 W.Nr.874/9610 W.Nr.874/9610 LKS 1 B0117
BJ+UK Caudron C.445 W.Nr.875/9611 W.Nr.875/9611
BJ+UL Caudron C.445 W.Nr.876/9612 W.Nr.876/9612 FFS A 3
BJ+UM Caudron C.445 W.Nr.877/9613 W.Nr.877/9613 FFS A 61
BJ+UN Caudron C.445 W.Nr.878/9614 W.Nr.878/9614
BJ+UO Caudron C.445 W.Nr.879/9615 W.Nr.879/9615
BJ+UP Caudron C.445 W.Nr.880/9616 W.Nr.880/9616
BJ+UQ Caudron C.445 W.Nr.881/9617 W.Nr.881/9617 later F-BAIT
BJ+UR Caudron C.445 W.Nr.882/9618 W.Nr.882/9618
BJ+US Caudron C.445 W.Nr.883/9619 W.Nr.883/9619 LNS See Dievenow
BJ+UT Caudron C.445 W.Nr.884/9620 W.Nr.884/9620 later F-SCA, then F-SCAT
BJ+UU Caudron C.445 W.Nr.885/9621 W.Nr.885/9621
BJ+UV Caudron C.445 W.Nr.886/9622 W.Nr.886/9622
BJ+UW Caudron C.445 W.Nr.887/9623 W.Nr.887/9623
BJ+UX Caudron C.445 W.Nr.888/9624 W.Nr.888/9624
BJ+UY Caudron C.445 W.Nr.889/9625 W.Nr.889/9625
BJ+UZ Caudron C.445 W.Nr.890/9626 W.Nr.890/9626

This gives a few pointers to possible units.

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Andy Mitchell
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 Post subject: Re: Caudron C.445 with unknown emblem
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:40 pm 
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Thanks again Andy. Unfortunately the wing totally hides the last letter on the complete photo, so the a/c identity cannot be narrowed any further. Of the units listed above there are only two which I cannot find emblems for. These are FFS A/B 42 and LNS(See) Dievenow. I am well aware that training units often had multiple emblems, so we cannot rule out the units with ‘known’ emblems.

Past research has shown that training emblems in particular often have similarities with the emblem/shield used by the locations in which they are based. Of the bases of FFS A/B 42 no emblem/shield resembles in any way the Caudron C.445 emblem. I wasn’t too hopeful concerning LNS(See) Dievenow, since one would assume a nautical theme to the emblem. I am also fairly sure that this is actually LNS 6(See) which does have an emblem. Dievenow is today in Poland, and known as Dziwnów. I have attached two copies of their shield. The bottom half of the shield has some similarities to the Caudron emblem. It certainly isn’t in any way conclusive proof, but might help if future evidence is found?


Attachments:
490px-POL_Dziwnów_COA.svg - Copy.png
490px-POL_Dziwnów_COA.svg - Copy.png [ 21.97 KB | Viewed 3260 times ]
513px-POL_Dziwnów_COA_1.svg - Copy.png
513px-POL_Dziwnów_COA_1.svg - Copy.png [ 11.85 KB | Viewed 3259 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Caudron C.445 with unknown emblem
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Found this in the archives - captured in 2003

Attachment:
0d_1.jpg
0d_1.jpg [ 26.56 KB | Viewed 3252 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Caudron C.445 with unknown emblem
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:12 am 
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Hi Andy

This Caudron has the LNS 3 emblem. Fairly sure that its not the emblem on the first post.

Cheers
Ian


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