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 Post subject: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 am 
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Guys

I am new to this site and would like to ask a question taht s troubling me. I make model aircraft, normally in 1/48 scale and am a member of the Air Recce Special Interest Group. Within that Group I tend to concentrate on Luftwaffe Recce types which is quite a selective and interesting group of aircraft.

I have recently completed a Me 262 U3 and my next project is the 109 E5. Manufacturers do not make specific kits for this mark so i have to research the aircraft and scratch build the parts myself or buy 'add ons'. The problem i have is the camera configuration for the E5. The references I have all point to a single camera behind the cockpit with a sliding door aperture in the base of the fuselage, however I have seen references to the 'Gustav' recce version with two square windows further back in the fuselage. The confusion arises when I attempted to buy the resin sliding camera aperture for the E5 but it is advertised to make the 'Gustav'.

Basically can anyone confirm that the E5 had the sliding camera aperture. I also understand that there were a couple of E5's converted to E5 Trops, can anyone point me in the direction of some info for those.

Thanks in anticipation.

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:12 am 
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Location: Biggin Hill UK
Paul,

So far I have only found small references to the E-5 recce varient in Green's "Warplanes of the Third Reich" and the Wadman/Bradley/Ketley "Aufklarer".

Both state roughly the same ""from which the wing-mounted MG FF cannon were removed and a single vertical Rb 50/30 camera mounted in the fusalage aft of the cockpit." I would suggest Green's tome is the source for the Aufklarer text.

Aufklarer contains a number of interesting photos of 109G recce versions including some of a camera being installed by the groundcrew.

Also in Aufklarer you can find photos and notes on the Rb 50/30.

Aero Detail 1 covering the Bf 109E - has a side view of the E-5 and suggests that the camera used was an Rb 21/18.

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Andy Mitchell
http://www.luftwaffedata.co.uk
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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:51 am 
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Paul,

On page 37 of the Squadron Signal "Bf109 In Action" Pt 1 you will find a sketch of the underside fairing for the camera. Again this is refered to as an Rb 21/18.

On further checking the Aero Detail volume I found a photo of a similar mounting but th ecamera refered to as an Rb 50/30.

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Andy Mitchell
http://www.luftwaffedata.co.uk
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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:09 am 
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Paul,

Here is a scan of the fairing for the Rb 21/18 on a Bf 109E-5

This is from Squadron Signal's Bf 109 In Action Pt 1 page 37

Attachment:
Bf 109E-5 Rb 21_18.jpg
Bf 109E-5 Rb 21_18.jpg [ 17.85 KB | Viewed 3534 times ]




So far I have not found any photos of Bf 109E-5/Trops although several publications refer to them.

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Andy Mitchell
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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:41 pm 
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All

Thanks for your help. I have gone through my references again and it seems that the 'double camera' confguration was used simply as an alternative to the single slding door camera port. For instance the G4/R3 was either/or whereas the G6/R2 had the single Rb 50/30 presumably any fighter fitted with a single camera used the sliding door and those with the double camera configuration used the 'two windows'. The G8 and G8 Trop is the only mark I can find that specifically uses the twin windows configuration.

I will go with the sliding door for the E5 and as for the trop version I will simply include the filter and source details of an appropriate staffel.

Thanks all for your assistance, ill post a pic of the finished model later in the year.

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:04 pm 
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Andy

Thanks for the info and picture - your response confirmed my investigation.

As an aside in the Osprey book 109 Aces of the Mediterreanean and North Africa, there is a photo of an E4 Trop which has been configured for recce ops by the addition of a small blister in the base of the fuselage containing an 'oblique' camera. Looks to be a simple 'bolt on' conversion as the ac still has wing mounted guns and is for all intents and purposes a straight fighter with a camera in its belly.

I would be grateful if anyone has an info on this camera set up.

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Paul,

See image below - lifted this from another bulletin board. Thought that it may be of help.

Attachment:
Bf109 Rb20_30.jpg
Bf109 Rb20_30.jpg [ 151.36 KB | Viewed 3497 times ]

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Andy Mitchell
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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:07 pm
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Andy Mitchell wrote:
Paul,

So far I have only found small references to the E-5 recce varient in Green's "Warplanes of the Third Reich" and the Wadman/Bradley/Ketley "Aufklarer".

Both state roughly the same ""from which the wing-mounted MG FF cannon were removed and a single vertical Rb 50/30 camera mounted in the fusalage aft of the cockpit." I would suggest Green's tome is the source for the Aufklarer text.

Aufklarer contains a number of interesting photos of 109G recce versions including some of a camera being installed by the groundcrew.

Also in Aufklarer you can find photos and notes on the Rb 50/30.

Aero Detail 1 covering the Bf 109E - has a side view of the E-5 and suggests that the camera used was an Rb 21/18.


Another error in the Green book.

Bf 109 E-5 was a E-1 differes on following points:
Without FuG VIIa, but with a Rb 21/18!
Source: Zusammenstellung der eingeführten Flugzeugmuster Stand 19.04.1941!

Junker


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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:33 pm 
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Junker,

Many thanks for the correction - really not surprised at the Green error (but how old is that book....)

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Andy Mitchell
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 Post subject: Re: Bf 109 E5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:33 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Junker,

You're absolutely correct regarding the E-5 camera fit.
The reference in my original 'Aufklärer' is one of the many in the text and photo captions that were changed by the 'editor/publisher' without my knowledge.

Regards
Dave


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