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 Post subject: Recce loss North Sea 29 September 1944?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:05 pm 
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Hello All,

I'm trying to determine if a Luftwaffe recce craft was lost on 29 September 1944? Does anyone have any potential matches? Claimed shot down at around 11 a.m. British time.

TIA,

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Recce loss North Sea 29 September 1944?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:07 am 
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Mark,

Do you have any more information other than this?

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Andy Mitchell
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 Post subject: Re: Recce loss North Sea 29 September 1944?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:28 pm 
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Hi Andy,

The info I have is: "F/Lt P W Vincent and F/O Frank Money claimed a probable Me-410 at 1107 hours on Sept 29, 1944, 12 m ESE of Yarmouth, in Mosquito XIX TA391 N. Info from CR: Air 50/66-118."

The Mosquito was on an ASR search, so at low level, and so far as I know they only identified a single e/a. So, I wondered whether the aircraft they attacked might have been a weather recce sortie.

I may end up downloading the full combat report for myself, will post anything additional here.

Cheers,

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Recce loss North Sea 29 September 1944?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Mark,

So far nothing.

Have looked through the wk nr lists in Petrick/Stocker - Me 210/410 (Midland).

Also looked at Air Raid by Michael Bowyer - this covers a lot of activity in and around East Anglia but is very thin with regard to 1944.and found one reference to a loss on 29 Sep 1944 - but this was for an He 111H V-1 launcher shot down by a mosquito of 25 Sqdn - HK357, which claimed two. (Location unknown)

Unable to look at The Blitz then and Now v3 - I dont have this book.

Also looked at an unpublished Me 410 Incident list put together by Dave Wadman and George Hopp but this did not record anything for the date in question.

Had a look at Simon Parry's "Intruders over Britain" and found nothing.

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Andy Mitchell
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 Post subject: Re: Recce loss North Sea 29 September 1944?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:09 am 
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Many thanks for that Andy, very kind of you to take so much time hunting about.

Frankly, I think I see the dark hand of friendly fire in this one. 157 Squadron was on a series of ASR sorties that morning, looking for one of their own aircraft (it had actually crashed in Holland). There seems to have been a confused period just after 11 a.m. with a Mosquito having been lost, and 410 claimed probably destroyed. I can't find a Luftwaffe victory claim in the right place, nor does it seem a 410 was lost...

Thanks again,

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Recce loss North Sea 29 September 1944?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:33 am 
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Spoke too soon - according to the Combat report, the surviving 157 Squadron aircraft was able to see both the 410 and the other Mosquito, which eventually stalled and crashed, at the same time. 410 had crept up on the pair, lead aircraft yelled over the radio to the other, got no reply, engaged the 410 which pulled away smoking.

PM me and I'll send you the combat report if you like.

Cheers,

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Recce loss North Sea 29 September 1944?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Mark,

I am still looking.

Have gone through Michael Holm's pages on the Westa units and can only find Westa 51 operational with Me 410s. This unit, according to MH, was at Toussus-le-Buc to 8.44 and then possibly moved to Jutebog.

However, reference to Wekusta by Selinger and Kington gives the following - base Tours until 8 Aug, move to Jutebog, last recorded loss 4 July 1944.

Another note under Westa 51 in Wekusta, indicates that when there were not enough aircraft available 3(F)./123 took over Met recce flights in July on a number of dates. Kington/Selinger note that for previous years Westa 51 flew sorties up the East coast of the UK.

3./123 was not operational with Me 410s.(Holm)

There is also a map in Wekusta that shows usual tracks followed by the Westa units - Westa 51s involved the East coast of the UK.

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Andy Mitchell
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 Post subject: Re: Recce loss North Sea 29 September 1944?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:50 am 
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Hi Again Andy,

Many thanks for all the efforts. I confess I am well confused by this one - by late September '44 there would (to my untrained eye) appear to be little need for the Luftwaffe to send weather recce flights to the U.K. East Coast.

The combat report indicates the Mosquitos had come back from their ASR patrol off Holland - perhaps they were stalked back from Holland? The 410 certainly had the range to do so, but of course whether one actually did so is me speculating.

Thanks again,

Mark

PS markhux AT hotmail DOT com if you'd like the combat report.


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