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 Post subject: Kommando Gotz
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:33 pm 
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I have been reading "On Special Missions" and am intrigued by the operations performed by "Kommando Gotz" in the East, operating Ju 88s from Sarabus.

Can anyone provide any further information?


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 Post subject: Andy Fletcher Posted: Oct 30 2006, 02:13 PM
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:30 pm 
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Hi Andy,

What time period are you talking about.

I believe Horst Götz was serving with 1./Versuchsverband ObdL (as of 25/3/43)-9/44. If this is correct then it is quite possible that elements of 1./Versuchsverband ObdL were operating out of Sarabus.

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Andy (F)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:52 pm 
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Andy,

According to "On Special Missions" a detatchment of the 1./Versuchsverband ObdL was sent to Sarabus to operate over the Black Sea hunting for Soviet Shipping at night (see page 30). This unit was led by Horst Goetz and named Kommando Goetz. It operated Ju88 A-4s with Lichtenstein S radars.
The unit used the admin and supply facilities of 4.(F)/122 and had (according to Sommer then flying as Goetz's navigator) four Ju 88s and one He 111. One Ju 88 had the code T5+UB, all aircraft had their national insignia blacked out.
The Kommando departed Orly for Sarabus on 17 Feb. 1943.

Will work up some more notes for the relevant page on the web site - the original post here was to find out if anyone had more information.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:49 am 
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Hi Andy,

Great stuff. Thanks for the info.

The reason I wasn't 100% sure about Götz being with 1./Versuchsverband ObdL at the time was one of the main references I use for the DKiG database gives his (and Sommer's) unit as 1.(F)/100 when he received his DKiG on 25Mar43 (same date for Sommer)

There seems to be some confusion in the book between 1.(F)/ObdL which became 1.(F)/100 on 27Jan43 and 1./Versuchsverband ObdL. Indeed there is conflicting info between all (F)/100 entries which are listed under Versuchsverband ObdL and there are is no listing for (F)/100 under "regular" aufklärungsgruppen but (F)/ObdL is. I think the two have been mixed together. Therefore any other individuals you could identify as being with the Kdo. might help sort out the correct units for some other DKiG recipients.

When did the Kdo. leave Sarabus?

Best Regards

Andy (F)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:08 pm 
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Personnel associated with Kommando Gotz's time in Sarabus.
Erich Sommer
Prof. Scherzer (specialist in Antenae design.)
Ofw. Sprickerhoff (a member of Gotz/Sommer crew)
Gef. Strack (a member of Gotz/Sommer crew)
Lt. Dumke

Maybe someone else can add to this list.

Note from p35 of "On Special Missions" - During th ecampaign both Gotz and Sommer received the DKiG for their efforts.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:59 am 
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Hi Andy,

Thanks for the additional names, unfortunately no DKiG recipients except perhaps Lt Dumke (possibly Oblt Horst Dϋmke 2.(F)/100 (??2./Versuchsverband ObdL??) DKiG 17Oct43).

Interestingly an Oblt Horst Dumke 4.(F)/122 received the DKiG 12Jul43. As 4.(F)/122 was based at Sarabus the same time as the 1./Versuchsverband ObdL detachment it seems to be quite a coincidence.

Both Dumke 4.(F)/122 and Dϋmke 2.(F)/100 were pilots was Lt Dumke attached to the Kdo. a pilot.

Sorry for asking more questions than answering.

Best Regards

Andy (F)

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 Post subject: Dumke
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:44 pm 
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Andy,

Lt. Dumke (not Dümke) crash landed one of the unit's Ju 88s on 26 April due to wing icing - no injuries. Implication in the statement was that Dumke was the pilot.

Also Götz and Sommer received their DKiGs from General Martin Feibig (VIII Fliegerkorps).

Kommando Götz left for Oranienburg on 14 May 1943.

According to the graphic in the front of this book - 1(F)./100 formed from 1(F)./Aufkl.Gr. ObdL on 27 Jan 1943 (Rosch only gives Jan 1943 and Holm 27/01.43).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:26 am 
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Hi Andy,

Thanks for the answer.

Interestingly a 4.(F)/122 Ju 88 crashlanded on 27Apr43 due weather with no casualties. Is this the same incident as the Kdo. Götz loss reported on the 26Apr43?

I wonder if Dumke from 4.(F)/122 was attached to Kdo. Götz or was originally with Kdo. Götz (1./Versuchsverband ObdL) and remained with 4.(F)/122 when Kdo. Götz departed Sarabus. As Dumke isn't that common a name and for two individuals to be in the same place at the same time as recce pilots it just seems too much of a coincidence for them not to be the same guy.

Looking forward to the new page on Kdo. Götz at Sarabus.

Best Regards

Andy (F)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:52 pm 
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Andy,

It gets more interesting than that. Quite by chance I was thumbing through another book and ......

"KG 200 - The Luftwaffe's Most Secret Unit" has the following:-

P42 of this book refers to Kommando "Toska". This unit was based at Kalamaki and commanded by one Oblt Horst Dümke (or Dümcke).

This unit is described as being sourced from 2./Ob.d.L. and was established for recce over North Africa with an ultimate aim of carrying out offensive operations. This was in the Autumn of 1943.

12 Nov 1943 - He 111 flown by Oblt aul Karger towed a Bf 108, flown by Oblt Horst Dümke, across the Med and released it over the Gulf of Sirte. The Bf 108 landed at an abandoned Italian landing ground. The intention was to establish a radio station that would be supplied by air and also carry out recce sorties from this location in the Wadi Tamet (Lager 1 codename "Traviata"). Unfortunately, the resupply mission for 13 Nov did not take place due to Allied air strikes on Kalamaki and it was not until 17 Nov that Dümcke and his observer were resupplied.

The radio station operated from mid Nov until mid-December when the personnel were withdrawn.
The British LRDG attacked Lager 1 on 14 March. In May 1944 Dümke flew back to Lager 1 in a B-17 - they came under fire and beat a hasty withdrawal.

13 Aug 1944 Dümke became Kommandoführer of Kommando Carmen operating from Bergamo. Dümke was killed when Ju 188D-2 A3+RD hit high-tension power lined and crashed two miles west of Bergamo.

From this I think it may be safe to say thatthis is one and the same man.

However, maybe someone else can add to this story......

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:39 pm 
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Andy,

Some more re Dümke from KG 200 - p44

Dümke had previously been with Wekusta 2./Ob.d.L and had ditched in the Atlantic being picked up by a Bizerte flying boat of Seenot. 1. (no date provided for this).

Re Dümke's death - Beale et al in "Air War Italy" page 105 states that they had been on a "night practice flight" and had lost orientation on their landing approach hitting the high tention cable. The aircraft was destroyed in the following crash and fire. (W.Nr. 160062)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:29 pm 
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Hi Andy,

Great info reference Dümcke.

I've rechecked the name and it is Oblt Horst Dümcke, not Dümke as I originally stated. He received the DKiG 17Oct43 and is stated as having served with 2.(F)/100, but what you say confirms what I thought that his unit was actually 2./Versuchsverband ObdL.

This still leaves Oblt Horst Dumke 4.(F)/122 DKiG 12Jul43 who was possibly with 1./Versuchsverband ObdL (Kdo. Götz) during Spr43 as a Lt.

Two different sources both list Oblt Horst Dumke and Oblt Horst Dümcke as having received their DKiGs on different dates.

I think that Dümcke and Dumke are different individuals but the Dumke who flew with Kdo. Götz and 4.(F)/122 is the same guy although the similarity of names and units is uncanny.

Cheers

Andy (F)

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